Hello, Juan Pablo,
Thank you for the reception. Gracias por la recepción!
I have already downloaded your music from Guatemala. I'll play it on the Brazilian country viola. It is a kind of little guitar with five orders derived from the baroque guitar. The tuning called "natural" by Brazilian players has the same notes as the baroque guitar (from bass to top: A- D - G - B - E). The "modinha", wich is at the origin of the Brazilian popular song, was created by a viola player (called "violeiro"). When I am playing the pieces from Guatemala, I'll record to send to you.
thank you!
Muchas gracias!
Fernando.
I have miraculously put my hands on the work score I had made up at the time of the recording (1995...). I will try to post the two opening pages (1st movement) as 2 jpg files in My Photo album. It will give you a more precise idea of how I proceeded to adapt the original music by Handel.
Juan Pablo, I have just added the Tombeau de Charles de Gallot to my music list on my page. It is played by Thierry Meunier, my duet partner in "A Due Liuti". He plays exactly the same guitar as the one I use in the Hanendel Cantata. Tell me what you think. I would play it very much the same way...
Thank you Juan Pablo for your invitation, which I am glad to accept of course, and for you comments about the Cantata Sagnuola. I used a baroque guitar, originally made by Sanchis Carpio in Valencia (Spain) in 1977 and restored by Charles Besnainou (Paris) in 1983. Not a very glamorous instrument, but I would not change it for most of the instruments I have come across ! It sounds quite well to my taste and is very comfortable to play. Excellent value for money ;-)
Gracias otra vez y hasta luego,
Jean-Marie
PS / by the way I did not find the reference to Haendel's Cantata in the dissertation by Mr RodriguezTorselli. Do you remember what page it is on ? exactly ?
Thanks much for clarifying Delasolre. It's now incumbent on me to figure out hexachords and keep them in mind as I play. I heard an explanation of this once before in Spain, but it was fast and my Spanish isn't that good. I see lots of good reading on the web. So... I have much to learn!
Hi Juan Pablo,
thank´s for your kind comment to my video, i recognized at the first attempts, that this instrument fitspretty good the idea of this piece. this "early" instrument by de Witte has also something of the character of a baroque guitar and the perfect acoustic properties of this small church were also very helpful, here you can play music in an expression, not possible in an ordinary living room...
--- > but, already for some time i highly estimate your publications about early music in your country, some dayi´ll try it.
please, if you find at your excarvations anything with a cello or a sonata for a cello and b.c., you could make Dorothy and me very happy. to understand this, i kindly invite you to explore and comment my transcriptions of virtuoso violin and vocal music for baroque cello and theorbo, posted at our page in Daniel´s Lute community....kindest regards from a great lover of the iberoamerican people, music and nature - Siegfried
Hola, Juan Pablo:
En verdad, la intensión de conseguir un temperamento igual es muy antigua y no son pocos los laudistas que han procurado procedimientos adecuados mucho antes que Don Juan Sebastián Bach. En realidad el sistema de temperamento igual es una solucion de compromiso que no es ni és.
Cuando has tocado bastante con instrumentos de trastes móviles y regresas a la guitarra la encuentras desafinada. El temperamento igual es un "mal hábito" que nos termina acostumbrando.
Al realizar los cálculos en función de los armónicos terminamos teniendo una afinación natural que no encaja "naturalmente" con el sistema actual.
Todo esto lo sabés , estoy seguro, solo que lo coloco para los "lectores de comentarios" a quienes mando un gran saludo.
Cuando construí una reproducción de una guitarra Terzina original de Gaetano Guadagnini intenté utilizar el método de dividir por 19 y desistí al comparar los resultados.
En una oportunidad llegó a mis manos un cuatro venezolano y pude ver a simple vista que el entrastado estaba terriblemente mal. Daba para notar al solo observarlo que las distancias estaban erradas y no debieran coincidir con la afinación normal. La altura de las cuerdas era ridiculamente alta a mi entender y todo parecia un desastre. Cuando afiné el instrumento y comencé a tocar me di cuenta de que afinaba y que al razguear no trasteaba ni exigiéndole mucho. Evidentemente el constructor utilizó un método de medición ( probablemente guiandose por el oido) que difiere con los nuestros. El instrumento sonaba bien.
La verdad , según mi entender , es que la única manera de afinar satisfactoriamente para nosotros es por medio del sistema natural y con un instrumento de trastes móviles. El resto es aproximación.
Basta de lata.
Saludos cordiales.
José
Gracias por tu respuesta y por tu gesto de amistad. Perdona mi voracidad, pero luego de escribirte encontré el link de la tesis y la estuve leyendo. En realidad es curiosa la coincidencia de esta manera de medir las distancias del diapasón con la que indica en sus ediciones de los Métodos Dionisio
Aguado. este dice tomar el tiro de cuerda y dividirlo en 18, lo que es igual a tomar la mitad y dividirla en 9. Si tengo tiempo voy ha escribir un comentario en base a la experiencia personal sobre estas medidas.
Gracias , nuevo amigo.
José
Hola, Juan Pablo:
He visto y descargado las dos piezas de "regla de entrastar". No entiendo a que se refiere el título. ¿Me puedes informar?
Muchas gracias, desde ya.
José Verdi
Gracias, Juan Pablo. Este es mi correo: dietrich_buxtehude@hotmail.com
A la vuelta puedo enviarte el artículo de Vera, si te interesa.
Un saludo
Francisco
Hola de nuevo, Juan Pablo:
Llevo años estudiando los sistemas "ibéricos" de notación abreviada de acordes en el siglo XVII, y desarrollando una tesis sobre el mismo tema. El sistema de Amat (o sistema catalán como lo llama Pablo Minguet) fue usado también fuera de Cataluña, tengo evidencias de ello, y no son nada excepcionales. Este manuscrito guatemalteco supone por tanto una importantísima adición a las fuentes. Si fue o no copiado en Guatemala o en otro país americano es algo que los musicólogos de allá deberíais dilucidar. Recientemente Alejandro Vera ha demostrado que Santiago de Murcia nunca salió de la Península Ibérica, y que por tanto sus dos manuscritos "americanos" cruzaron el charco sin él.
La "Regla de entrastar" me parece interesantísima, aunque el trabajo de tu compatriota es muy añejo y sin duda mejorable me parece digno de todo el aplauso. La tabla de acordes me recuerda mucho a la que figura en el "Arte de la pintura" de García Hidalgo, también por Amat, pero la imagen que va pegada en la tesina se ve muy mal. ¿No la tendrías más clara? Creo recordar - disculpa mi duda - que la primera aparición de un cuadro de este tipo - con manos dibujadas - es precisamente en la edición de 1626 de Amat, y posteriormente la del italiano Banfi.
Te agradecería mucho si pudieras enviarme una copia digital tanto de la regla como del libro de Álvarez. Por descontado, además de citarte en mi tesis, estaré encantado de facilitarte cualquier material que necesites y que esté a mi alcance.
Saludos
Paco Valdivia
dietrichbuxtehude@gmail.com
Muchas gracias, Juan Pablo, y mil perdones por confundir tu nombre. Agradezco la información. ¿No hay más música en la regla de entrastar? ¿Sabes cuán difícil sería conseguir una copia de todo el manuscrito? Lo realmente interesante - para mí - de la "Regla" es que utiliza el sistema de Amat. Por último, quisiera preguntarte cuál es la fuente de las piezas de Manuel Álvarez. Gracias de nuevo, un saludo.
Estimado Juan Carlos:
Desconocía totalmente estas fuentes guatemaltecas. Me interesan mucho. ¿Serías tan amable de indicarme cómo podría conseguir una copia o, al menos, una descripción de su contenido?
Saludos
Francisco Valdivia
Congratulations on your Martin Tenor ukulele, that instrument my friend is the "Stradivarius" of the Ukulele among collectors, stems from hawaiian ukulele artist from of the 1940's when the ukulele was taken to a virtuosity level. It made its first appearance on the air waves in the late 1940's.
Made by the Martin company whose founder came from Germany from a family of violin makers about 1830's. Exquisite instrument, best touch and feel of the ukulele's I own and ever played.
The Ukulele, unbeknown to most, can play just about any cultural music in the world whether it be conventional or classical, jazz, blues, it can mimic any intelligible melody, in the right hands by an experienced artist. One day soon I will post some ukulele playing on the website.
I will also want to post instrumets made with the rich exotic "Hawaiian Koa wood", one of the worlds prettiest hardwoods you ever saw. Only grows on the higher elevations of the Hawaiian islands part of the Acacia family. These woods were used to make those seafarring canoes that traversed the pacific by the early Hawaiians before Captain came across them. ( Although he says he discovered Hawaii).
The First Portuguese instrument makers (who were furniture makers) to Hawaii (Nunez, Diaz etc) were priviliged to be able to use these woods to make their instruments.
One could argue whether it was the instrument or the wood, that first made the ukulele popular to the world in the Pan Pacific Expo of 1915 in Sanfrancisco.
By the way Juan, I also have a Martin Tenor and again you are correct, that model would be about 60 years old. That was the finest Ukulele ever made in the world. None can compare to it today. I paid 65 dollars for mine in the late 1950's. today it would be worth thousands to the right collector, it is a gold mine, take care of it. although they won't come out to mention price, or set price, because they don't want people to know what its worth so they can get it cheaper. One collector I know wanted to pay me 4 thousand dollars for mine.
To Mr Alexander Batov in England, master luthier, from what little I have seen of his work. One of the best investiments one can make today is in a good ukulele it continues to appreciate. A $10.00 ukulele in the 1940's is worth hundreds today. Especially if it is made with the hawaiian Koa wood. Koa made instruments range from 500.00 to three and five thousand dollars, just a thought, for you Alex.
Juan, the Martin company discontinued to build tenor ukulele's probably after the ate 1950's or early 60's. They stopped production, whether they don't have the talent to do it remains to be seen. The make soprano (smallest of the uklele family) in Mexico, not too bad , for $300.00
I am an ameature luthier, I have built ukulele's and copy the martin Specs, I come close to its quality in sound. Seems to me its in the limits of thickness of the sound board.
With the internet and people eager to expose things, the whole world knows of the ukulele and it is explosion in popularity, at retirement you can make a good living teaching it.
I will leave my Martin to my grand sons. One of them was on a mission down in Brazil for a year and kept me abreast of instruments there, especially the "cavaco" cavaquinho;s and the Tippelee, a ten string five course instrument, (2, 3, 3, 2, string arrangement) of the ukulele family. Interesting to play.
Again you are correct, the ukulele has many counterparts, ( I should say the ukulele would be almost a 2nd generation "Vihuela'). The vihuela as I have discovered looks to be a 2nd generation figure eight instrument created by the Spanish. (Maybe argueably by academia, but the facts are facts).
Portuguese exlorers brought their Cavaquinho's and some early form of the vihuela to south America, the indies, cuba etc. The Spanish brought their vihuela to the southern Americas, Mexico, with cortez.
As I have discovered many of these instruments respect their origin and are called such names as "Cavaco" after the river Cavaco in Braga. Also a latin name with the suffix "De braga" again meaning from the old city of Braga Portugal, where they were first a vihuela then to be called the Cavaquinho's of Braga Portugal. At its earliest form it looked exactly like the Ukulele with the same size, (four strings) Probably 1450ish). Excerpts from my book
It has unbelievablle resemblence of early the early Rajao, which was the same size of our tenor or baritone ukulele of today. As the portuguese began exploring to the new world they brought with them these instruments.
These emails can sure take alot of time huh.
I welcome any questions on the ukulele, been playing this instrument since I was 7 years old. My second favorite insturment is the guitar all types of Music, concentrating the past 30 years on the Hawaiian slack key guitar, of which I have been playing five years less then the ukulele.
Love all cultural music.
Ran across an artist from Armenia, plays the Al ud, looks, interesting, his thoughts on its origin, contrary to mine..........
Juan thanks for your email, where is your residence ?
Hola Juan Pablo. Realmente muy interesante lo que he leído sobre tus investigaciones de la música de cuerda pulsada en nuestro país. Compartiendo país y pasión por la música, estamos en la misma situación: trabajo de 8 horas diarias (más tiempo de transporte que estos dias ha estado medio perro) y ya luego las noches y lo que se pueda del fin de semana en estudiar un poco del instrumento.
Gracias por tu comentario del disco. Ya nos comunicaremos por otro medio para quedar y comentar de esto y mas.
Un abrazo.
Hola Juan Pablo. Perdon por el retraso en contestar, pero tuve un concierto fuera de Mexico. Gracias por la informacion que das sobre la musica guatemalteca para guitarra, me parece de primer interes. Los manuscritos mexicanos incluyen el Codice saldivar 4, que es el famoso de Murcia, luego el Codice saldivar 2, que es un ms. con musica para citara y una seccion con piezas tal vez para guitarra barroca, el ms. 1560 de la BNM, que es de la segunda mitad del siglo 18 y que como bien observas tiene piezas que se encuentran en libros de Murcia, y finalmente el Explicacion para tocar la guitarra de punteado, de Juan Antonio de vargas y Guzman, un gaditano que viva en Veracruz y que hizo su libro pata guitarra de 6 ordenes en 1776, aunque aparecio una version anterior, de 1774 creo, en España. Saludos
eloy
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Thank you for the reception. Gracias por la recepción!
I have already downloaded your music from Guatemala. I'll play it on the Brazilian country viola. It is a kind of little guitar with five orders derived from the baroque guitar. The tuning called "natural" by Brazilian players has the same notes as the baroque guitar (from bass to top: A- D - G - B - E). The "modinha", wich is at the origin of the Brazilian popular song, was created by a viola player (called "violeiro"). When I am playing the pieces from Guatemala, I'll record to send to you.
thank you!
Muchas gracias!
Fernando.
Gracias otra vez y hasta luego,
Jean-Marie
PS / by the way I did not find the reference to Haendel's Cantata in the dissertation by Mr RodriguezTorselli. Do you remember what page it is on ? exactly ?
Thanks much for clarifying Delasolre. It's now incumbent on me to figure out hexachords and keep them in mind as I play. I heard an explanation of this once before in Spain, but it was fast and my Spanish isn't that good. I see lots of good reading on the web. So... I have much to learn!
Un abrazo... cud
thank´s for your kind comment to my video, i recognized at the first attempts, that this instrument fitspretty good the idea of this piece. this "early" instrument by de Witte has also something of the character of a baroque guitar and the perfect acoustic properties of this small church were also very helpful, here you can play music in an expression, not possible in an ordinary living room...
--- > but, already for some time i highly estimate your publications about early music in your country, some dayi´ll try it.
please, if you find at your excarvations anything with a cello or a sonata for a cello and b.c., you could make Dorothy and me very happy. to understand this, i kindly invite you to explore and comment my transcriptions of virtuoso violin and vocal music for baroque cello and theorbo, posted at our page in Daniel´s Lute community....kindest regards from a great lover of the iberoamerican people, music and nature - Siegfried
En verdad, la intensión de conseguir un temperamento igual es muy antigua y no son pocos los laudistas que han procurado procedimientos adecuados mucho antes que Don Juan Sebastián Bach. En realidad el sistema de temperamento igual es una solucion de compromiso que no es ni és.
Cuando has tocado bastante con instrumentos de trastes móviles y regresas a la guitarra la encuentras desafinada. El temperamento igual es un "mal hábito" que nos termina acostumbrando.
Al realizar los cálculos en función de los armónicos terminamos teniendo una afinación natural que no encaja "naturalmente" con el sistema actual.
Todo esto lo sabés , estoy seguro, solo que lo coloco para los "lectores de comentarios" a quienes mando un gran saludo.
Cuando construí una reproducción de una guitarra Terzina original de Gaetano Guadagnini intenté utilizar el método de dividir por 19 y desistí al comparar los resultados.
En una oportunidad llegó a mis manos un cuatro venezolano y pude ver a simple vista que el entrastado estaba terriblemente mal. Daba para notar al solo observarlo que las distancias estaban erradas y no debieran coincidir con la afinación normal. La altura de las cuerdas era ridiculamente alta a mi entender y todo parecia un desastre. Cuando afiné el instrumento y comencé a tocar me di cuenta de que afinaba y que al razguear no trasteaba ni exigiéndole mucho. Evidentemente el constructor utilizó un método de medición ( probablemente guiandose por el oido) que difiere con los nuestros. El instrumento sonaba bien.
La verdad , según mi entender , es que la única manera de afinar satisfactoriamente para nosotros es por medio del sistema natural y con un instrumento de trastes móviles. El resto es aproximación.
Basta de lata.
Saludos cordiales.
José
Aguado. este dice tomar el tiro de cuerda y dividirlo en 18, lo que es igual a tomar la mitad y dividirla en 9. Si tengo tiempo voy ha escribir un comentario en base a la experiencia personal sobre estas medidas.
Gracias , nuevo amigo.
José
He visto y descargado las dos piezas de "regla de entrastar". No entiendo a que se refiere el título. ¿Me puedes informar?
Muchas gracias, desde ya.
José Verdi
A la vuelta puedo enviarte el artículo de Vera, si te interesa.
Un saludo
Francisco
Llevo años estudiando los sistemas "ibéricos" de notación abreviada de acordes en el siglo XVII, y desarrollando una tesis sobre el mismo tema. El sistema de Amat (o sistema catalán como lo llama Pablo Minguet) fue usado también fuera de Cataluña, tengo evidencias de ello, y no son nada excepcionales. Este manuscrito guatemalteco supone por tanto una importantísima adición a las fuentes. Si fue o no copiado en Guatemala o en otro país americano es algo que los musicólogos de allá deberíais dilucidar. Recientemente Alejandro Vera ha demostrado que Santiago de Murcia nunca salió de la Península Ibérica, y que por tanto sus dos manuscritos "americanos" cruzaron el charco sin él.
La "Regla de entrastar" me parece interesantísima, aunque el trabajo de tu compatriota es muy añejo y sin duda mejorable me parece digno de todo el aplauso. La tabla de acordes me recuerda mucho a la que figura en el "Arte de la pintura" de García Hidalgo, también por Amat, pero la imagen que va pegada en la tesina se ve muy mal. ¿No la tendrías más clara? Creo recordar - disculpa mi duda - que la primera aparición de un cuadro de este tipo - con manos dibujadas - es precisamente en la edición de 1626 de Amat, y posteriormente la del italiano Banfi.
Te agradecería mucho si pudieras enviarme una copia digital tanto de la regla como del libro de Álvarez. Por descontado, además de citarte en mi tesis, estaré encantado de facilitarte cualquier material que necesites y que esté a mi alcance.
Saludos
Paco Valdivia
dietrichbuxtehude@gmail.com
Desconocía totalmente estas fuentes guatemaltecas. Me interesan mucho. ¿Serías tan amable de indicarme cómo podría conseguir una copia o, al menos, una descripción de su contenido?
Saludos
Francisco Valdivia
Estoy interesado en conocer la musica del manuscrito "regla de entrastar", en especial la pieza de Marizapalos.
En la actualidad, realizo un trabajo musicologico y de disfusión del Codice Sáldivar IV en México.
Donde puedo conseguir el manuscrito de "regla de entrastar"?
Saludos,
Frannz
You find the Gavotte and Air on page 1 and 2 in part III of the manuscript.
Congratulations on your Martin Tenor ukulele, that instrument my friend is the "Stradivarius" of the Ukulele among collectors, stems from hawaiian ukulele artist from of the 1940's when the ukulele was taken to a virtuosity level. It made its first appearance on the air waves in the late 1940's.
Made by the Martin company whose founder came from Germany from a family of violin makers about 1830's. Exquisite instrument, best touch and feel of the ukulele's I own and ever played.
The Ukulele, unbeknown to most, can play just about any cultural music in the world whether it be conventional or classical, jazz, blues, it can mimic any intelligible melody, in the right hands by an experienced artist. One day soon I will post some ukulele playing on the website.
I will also want to post instrumets made with the rich exotic "Hawaiian Koa wood", one of the worlds prettiest hardwoods you ever saw. Only grows on the higher elevations of the Hawaiian islands part of the Acacia family. These woods were used to make those seafarring canoes that traversed the pacific by the early Hawaiians before Captain came across them. ( Although he says he discovered Hawaii).
The First Portuguese instrument makers (who were furniture makers) to Hawaii (Nunez, Diaz etc) were priviliged to be able to use these woods to make their instruments.
One could argue whether it was the instrument or the wood, that first made the ukulele popular to the world in the Pan Pacific Expo of 1915 in Sanfrancisco.
By the way Juan, I also have a Martin Tenor and again you are correct, that model would be about 60 years old. That was the finest Ukulele ever made in the world. None can compare to it today. I paid 65 dollars for mine in the late 1950's. today it would be worth thousands to the right collector, it is a gold mine, take care of it. although they won't come out to mention price, or set price, because they don't want people to know what its worth so they can get it cheaper. One collector I know wanted to pay me 4 thousand dollars for mine.
To Mr Alexander Batov in England, master luthier, from what little I have seen of his work. One of the best investiments one can make today is in a good ukulele it continues to appreciate. A $10.00 ukulele in the 1940's is worth hundreds today. Especially if it is made with the hawaiian Koa wood. Koa made instruments range from 500.00 to three and five thousand dollars, just a thought, for you Alex.
Juan, the Martin company discontinued to build tenor ukulele's probably after the ate 1950's or early 60's. They stopped production, whether they don't have the talent to do it remains to be seen. The make soprano (smallest of the uklele family) in Mexico, not too bad , for $300.00
I am an ameature luthier, I have built ukulele's and copy the martin Specs, I come close to its quality in sound. Seems to me its in the limits of thickness of the sound board.
With the internet and people eager to expose things, the whole world knows of the ukulele and it is explosion in popularity, at retirement you can make a good living teaching it.
I will leave my Martin to my grand sons. One of them was on a mission down in Brazil for a year and kept me abreast of instruments there, especially the "cavaco" cavaquinho;s and the Tippelee, a ten string five course instrument, (2, 3, 3, 2, string arrangement) of the ukulele family. Interesting to play.
Again you are correct, the ukulele has many counterparts, ( I should say the ukulele would be almost a 2nd generation "Vihuela'). The vihuela as I have discovered looks to be a 2nd generation figure eight instrument created by the Spanish. (Maybe argueably by academia, but the facts are facts).
Portuguese exlorers brought their Cavaquinho's and some early form of the vihuela to south America, the indies, cuba etc. The Spanish brought their vihuela to the southern Americas, Mexico, with cortez.
As I have discovered many of these instruments respect their origin and are called such names as "Cavaco" after the river Cavaco in Braga. Also a latin name with the suffix "De braga" again meaning from the old city of Braga Portugal, where they were first a vihuela then to be called the Cavaquinho's of Braga Portugal. At its earliest form it looked exactly like the Ukulele with the same size, (four strings) Probably 1450ish). Excerpts from my book
It has unbelievablle resemblence of early the early Rajao, which was the same size of our tenor or baritone ukulele of today. As the portuguese began exploring to the new world they brought with them these instruments.
These emails can sure take alot of time huh.
I welcome any questions on the ukulele, been playing this instrument since I was 7 years old. My second favorite insturment is the guitar all types of Music, concentrating the past 30 years on the Hawaiian slack key guitar, of which I have been playing five years less then the ukulele.
Love all cultural music.
Ran across an artist from Armenia, plays the Al ud, looks, interesting, his thoughts on its origin, contrary to mine..........
Juan thanks for your email, where is your residence ?
As they say in Hawaii Mahalo, (thank you)
Gracias por tu comentario del disco. Ya nos comunicaremos por otro medio para quedar y comentar de esto y mas.
Un abrazo.
eloy
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