bordons on the upper side of the courses

[Ariel]

Hi all!

is there any evidence of stringing the bordons in continuo playing on the upper side of the 4th and 5th courses? recently I tried to put a low A bass string on the bottom side of the 5th course (as a standart stringing), and unlike the 4th course with such stringing, it sounds quite horrible...the parallel octaves are pretty dissonant....I need basses for some continuo pieces I work on:-)

regards

[Jelma van Amersfoort]

Hi Ariel

I'm sorry you did not get any answer yet. As to historic evidence, I don't have that knowledge readily available. Maybe you can search the history of this forum and also the history of the [VIHUELA] mailing list. I seem to remember that it has been mentioned before. It really depends on the century and place that your repertoire was composed...

Your second issue, is about "parallel octaves". The lower string of the course and its octave are supposed to sound as one, not two, with the higher string affecting only the timbre and not being perceived as a separate voice or pitch. (If you really need a low A and don't like the "octave", you could try using two low As on the fifth course?) But basically I would say find a stringing that is historically feasible for the repertoire you play and make that work.

 

Best wishes, Jelma

[Ariel]

Hi Jelma,
thanks for your answer.
Regarding the "parallel octaves", when I pluck with my thumb on the 4th or the 5th course, I find that the dominant audible string is the string on the upper side of the course (I use nails). As for the standard stringing, the dominant audible string is the higher octave string. That why I wonder whether there was kind of method that advocated a lower octave string on the upper side of the course in favor of making the bass more audible...

[Jelma van Amersfoort]

I see :-) I know there exist some clear engravings on this issue in 18th century guitar methods. I will look if I can find something, later in the week, and let you know. J.

[Scot Tremblay]

There was a discussion some time back (here, I think?? It may very well have been elsewhere) concerning this topic. Someone had posted a copy of an original drawing which clearly showed the bordons on the lower side of the course. I don't remember the general conclusion arrive at but it seems, that although not common, it was a string arrangement not unknown historically.

 

Maybe someone else will remember that discussion and can find it...I searched but souldn't.

[Jelma van Amersfoort]

Hi Scot and Ariel

There was this discussion: http://earlyguitar.ning.com/forum/topics/baroque-guitar-bourdons

J.

[Ariel]

thanks Jelma

[Scot Tremblay]

Thanks Jelma, I remember that one but that's not it. Similar kind of drawing though. Must be on a different forum. I'll do a search when I have more than a moment and see if I can find it.  

 

 

[Ariel]

thanks Scot

[Martyn Hodgson]

Stradivari's description of the stringing of a theorboed guitar describes the disposition of the fingered courses (see archives here and on Wayne Cripps's site). In short, they indicate that the higher pitched course of a bass octave pair is on the side struck by the thumb first. Incidentally I tend to be wary of using phrases like the 'upper side' since this can be taken to mean the string closest to the treble (ie first) course or the string in the uppermost position (ie that closest to the sky!) and are the exact opposite.

Stradivar's note also gives a good indication of string diameters and thus the likely tension (see paper in FoMRHI Quarterly No. 41'C-663 The stringing of a baroque guitar' Hodgson October 1985 available in FoMRHI archives).

What we do not have is clear written evidence for the disposition from the early/mid 17th century - but most, myself included, believe it is the same arrangement as that described later.

MH