Murcia facsimile?

[Bill Brettschneider]

Does anybody have a link to a codice saldovar 4 (or however it's spelled) facsimile pdf that they can share? Or is there some reason that's not in the public domain. I could only find a print version for sale for a crazy amount of money.

[Bill Brettschneider]

I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I have never seen a copyright on an unedited facsimile, but I'm no expert. I certainly was not looking to violate a copyright when I opened this thread. My understanding is that in the U.S. (where I live) a copyright is only good for the life of the author plus 75 years, so I figure any facsimile of the original would long ago have become public domain. Perhaps there is some reason that this document would follow different rules that I know nothing about, and I would be interested to learn if that is the case, but it would be a bit surprising to me.

[Monica Hall]

As a retired librarian living in the UK I believe the position is thus.   The music itself is only copyright during the life of the composer and for about 50 years after his death.   However other people can own the copyright to the printed image e.g. the engraver, the typesetter, the editor, the printer.   It is always advisable to obtain permission to reproduce or perform something commercially produced. It is courteous to do so and in my experience is usually forthcoming provided the copyright holder is duly acknowledged.  Manuscripts are more complicated as they are unique.  The right to reproduce them usually lies with the owner.   Technically I suppose Lorimer may own the images which he made on a visit to the Saldivar family i.e. the photographic art work which presumably he had their permission to publish.   The advent of the internet has made it much more difficult to police this...I don't actually know where the person who gave me the scans got them from - whether he made them himself and got them from some else.   But I am not a lawyer!   It wouldn't really be worth anyone's while to prosecute you if all you are doing is using it for your own study purposes.   If you obtain the copies from a library you usually have to sign something saying that that is what you want them for.  However libraries often now allow readers to make their own copies with their digital cameras - the British certainly does.     I don't know where that leaves us on this list.

[Monica Hall]

That is a good question.   In fact I have a copy of Lorimer's edition myself but the scans were given to me by someone else.   I have not included Lorimer's introduction.   It was apparently published by Lorimer himself in rather unusual circumstances.  Craig Russell's edition also includes a facsimile of the manuscript so it might be difficult for Lorimer to prove that he has sole right to produce it.  In practice people seem to reproduce these facsimiles regardless of whether they are copyright - even in commercial publications and increasingly libraries are making them available freely on line.   Still - if it offends anyone I will delete it..... 

[sergio muselli]

Some people seem to enjoy to cut the sharing between aficionados .... What about the rights if I buy an original copy of the book, paid at  a quite high price for the quality of the edition (not really a Minkoff reprint ...) and decided to made for myself a pdf, and lend it to a friend ? Are you going to call the police, the FBI, the owner of the ms  ...?

[Simon Boyle]

 I am in favour of making such facsimiles available as much as possible. Perhaps in this case the copyright only truly extends to the introduction and notes in the publication, which are original work, and not to the facsimile itself.

[Simon Boyle]

In reply to sergio mueslli I think the principle of upholding copyright where it genuinely exists is important, not least because it is the principle that underpins the music publishing industry.

[Monica Hall]

Yes - I agree.  But in this instance the book is out of print and not even readily available second hand.   Bill is not intending to make money by republishing it in any form - he just wants to be able to play some of the music.   Anyway - I have deleted it so anyone who hasn't copied it has missed their chance.

[sergio muselli]

Well answered Monica ! 

[Bill Brettschneider]

I will be sure to do with all of my digital copies as my conscience dictates. have no fear. and thank you all for the enlightening discussion.

[Tom Monaghan]

Can someone please share this with me. I can't see it on Monica's page.

Ah, i see from reading the above why not now.

[Monica Hall]

I removed them.  I can try e-mailing them to you privately is you give me an address.