Review of Thomann.de Baroque Guitar

Comment by Daniel Vissi on March 25, 2012 at 19:00

Hello! Im interested to buy the Thomann Baroque Guitar. Thank you all for the information and opinions here. Thanks for the mp3 example. Nice.

Rob, Its possible to know how goes the Thomann Baroque guitar of your pupil? what type of strings use actually?

Thanks again! :)

Dani

Comment by Frei on March 2, 2011 at 20:51

It takes about 30-40 hours to build a guitar. I'm getting my necks premade, close to finished, so I only have to concentrate on the bodies. Sitka is not a great 'classical' guitar top, if your a tone freak. You vant ze Dutche-Vood. You can look on ebay, Ive seen Koa sets go for $50.00. Alot of wanna be luthiers are selling shop now.

Comment by Gavin Cawley on March 2, 2011 at 13:02

I have spent about 100UKP on the materials for my baroque guitar (cherry back and sides, european spruce top, cedrella neck + wood for rose, linings, barring etc.), so the cost of materials isn't likely to be the real issue. Ammortising the cost of the tools is another issue, I'd have to make a *lot* of instruments before that was no longer an issue. The cost of labour must be by far the major cost. Fortunately I am only making a guitar as a hobby!

Not wanting to re-ignite the discussion on explitation, but trade is an excellent way of lifting the worlds poor out of poverty (e.g. Traidcraft). If a nation lacks the wealth for its citizens to have a good standard of living via its internal economy, it needs to export, and in order to export it needs overseas buyers. If making Thomann guitars is giving the luthiers in Pakistan a relatively good standard of living in return for their labour, then it is not exploitative, but positively beneficial. It seems more dignified than simply making them the beneficiary of foreign aid [although that is possibly just my western sensibilities]. High "value added" exports, like guitars for instance, ought to be a good opportunity for this, as we are paying for labour rather than depleting their natural resources (e.g. logging exotic hardwood in Madagascar). It isn't at all clear whether the Thomann guitar represents explotation or an economic benefit to Pakistan, there just isn't the information on Thomann's margins/costs and the standard of living of the luthiers. There is room for a rational decision to buy or not to buy on equally ethical grounds. Personally I hope that the Thomann guitar is exploiting a niche in the market that European luthiers ether can't or won't fill and is providing useful work in Pakistan at a fair wage.

Comment by Chris Despopoulos on March 2, 2011 at 11:40

Well, searching for the illusive $1500.00 baroque guitar, I would consider the domestic woods on this site. For example, I saw a set of Ash going for $49.00. Sets of Sitka Spruce for $25.00!!! Two Spanish Cedar necks for $62.00 Ebony fret boards for $18.00...

Again, you're not going for historical accuracy, luscious grain patterns, ornamentation, or other luxuries. You're going for an instrument that plays well and sounds good. It looks like materials can be kept down to $300.00 or so. Granted, this is all theoretical -- you need to touch the materials, and what do I know about it anyway? But how many hours do you need to build the instrument once you have the materials? Maybe the returns could be worthwhile...

(BTW, I was shocked at the price for Black Acacia on this tonewoods site. I believe the wood in my classical guitar is domestic -- as in, it was in a pile the neighbors were going to burn. So clearly, the back and sides on my instrument didn't cost $250.00!)

Comment by Frei on March 1, 2011 at 19:40

I would also go for Koa, which I think is pretty controlled (Hawaii), and sustainable, and sounds great on small guitars, and Cuban hog (much redder than Hondo), which I have no idea, but its the King of mahogany for guitars I hear. Also, the 'best' mahogany is actually not mahogany, but Anigre, and Black Limba is a great wood (I hear) much like Mahogany, maybe more EU friendly? Anyway, I'm just trying to get back into the "I wanna build' groove..)

These woods are not standard, but the standard woods used were what was available at that time. Any and all exotics would have been used, so for historical purposes, I see no problems using exotics while you can get them, and let the market/economy decide whats available.

http://rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

Comment by Chris Despopoulos on March 1, 2011 at 11:42

I still don't see why a 1000 eu (1500 USD) baroque guitar can't be made in a shop that has apprentices setting up the work. Cheaper materials? Why not! My favorite classical guitar has Black Acacia for back and sides, laurel for neck, and walnut for decoration. The top is redwood hewn out of an ancient stump of a tree what was cut many, many years ago. Only the bridge and freetboard are rare woods (rosewood and ebony respectively). Like I say, it's my favorite, for sound and playability.

Likewise, my baroque guitar -- while it has awesome grain patterns in the German Spruce top, the other materials aren't all top-of-the-line tone woods. Of course, I got the names of the woods in Spanish, so I'm not sure what they are. But again, the only tone wood I recognize is the ebony for the diapson.

As for the morality of globalization... Guitars are far from the real problem. Buy local food, park your car for weeks or months at a time, and kill your TV. Then talk to me about your guitar purchases as a determining factor. And another point... If foreign-made instruments had been forbidden throughout time, lutes wouldn't exist.

Comment by mel on March 1, 2011 at 6:38

Frei , you seem to be contradicting yourself. You would not buy Chinese or Pakistan because of political /moral /social issues. You complain about the loss of jobs and yet you are Okay with buying Mexican products. Were you not aware of the cries of alarm when NAFTA was signed? It’s okay with you that US firms build their maquilladoras and pay the citizens of Mexico $1.04 an hour? Did you not hear Ross Perot and the giant sucking sound? You state that US companies are bought out and their jobs are shipped out. The last time I looked GM and General Electric were still American companies but they chose to do their work in Maquilladoras in Mexico. And you ask where did our jobs go? Moral Issues ? Child labor? 14year old girls working 75 hour weeks. Political issues? You think Pakistanis and Chinese have a monopoly on corruption? Why do you think regions of Mexico have become Drug havens? Given that these are the working conditions I wonder why they don’t stay in Mexico.

Like that Mexican Martin guitar ? Go ahead buy it. I doubt as you say “it’ll keep Mexicans in Mexico.”

Now that we’ve gotten that out: this argument is really about nothing because despite whatever you think about the Thomann guitar , the market for such an esoteric item is miniscule. Whether you want to believe it or not the Early Music circle is a very elite club. You could pick a hundred people at random and probably none of them would know what a Baroque guitar is let alone would even have any remote desire to buy one. If Eric Clapton didn’t play one it doesn’t make a ripple in the minds of the masses. Corporations are not going to fall, builders such as Stephen Barber are not going to go bankrupt and wind up in the street and the sun will still come out tomorrow .

If you can build a baroque guitar for $800 and sell them more power to you , but be fair even US shop makers dread that calculation of what was my cost and what was my hourly wage rate for that project? If you change your mind maybe the Candelas Guitar Company can help you.

Would you like some salt on that tequila?

Comment by Frei on February 28, 2011 at 23:28

I would go for this: Buy a decent top from this guy: http://www.best-eurospruce.com/5.html, then, send it to a Mexican luthier, and have him build you a good guitar, for $650.00 more bucks. My personal dream guitar would be Koa and Cuban Mahogany, this would give the best woody sound, especially on a small guitar, and would look striking.

Comment by Akira Sakamoto on February 28, 2011 at 13:03

I would like to assume that the people arguing about ethics are willing to be less greedy and lower their own standard of life in order to help third world economy. I, for one, would rather like to refrain from getting into the argument because I haven't been able to be willing to do that, at least yet.

If the baroque guitar made in Pakistan is decent for the price, I think that's just fine. Comparing these two videos posted by Rob, I felt that replacing those dreadful nylon strings with Nylgut ones improved the sound of the guitar significantly.

Comment by Rob MacKillop on February 27, 2011 at 22:11

OK. I'll back out. Make your own minds up.

Review of Thomann.de Baroque Guitar

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