Early Guitars and Vihuela

A network for historic guitars and vihuelas

The guitar in the middle is a Russian semistrunka (7-string) that belonged to Leonid Petrovich Karagantcheff (www.karagantcheff.nl)

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Comment by Jelma van Amersfoort on April 11, 2014 at 9:08

Hello Martyn

I am afraid there is no option for us moderators on Ning to move whole discussions that way. If I could, I would, because the issue has come up before.

You or Patrick could of course start a Karagentcheff Instruments topic within the forum, starting with a short summary of what has been said here and the photos.

Jelma 

Comment by Martyn Hodgson on April 11, 2014 at 8:44

Thank you Jelma.

Can the conversation be transferred to the Forum? And how to do it?

It seems strange (at least to me) that there's no choice of address when responding to a comment.

Martyn

Comment by Jelma van Amersfoort on April 10, 2014 at 19:01

Have you any idea why our discussion (below) doesn't appear in the 'Forum'? I emailed the administrator but no response.....

Exactly as Patrick says, it is "a photocomment section and not a Forumtopic". Ning keeps these separate.

Best, Jelma

Comment by Patrick Broekema on April 10, 2014 at 8:27

Hi Martyn. Maybe because this is a photocomment section and not a Forumtopic? But I'm relatively new on this forum so I don't know yet how all this stuff works ;-)

Comment by Martyn Hodgson on April 10, 2014 at 8:22
Dear Patrick and Stuart,

Have you any idea why our discussion (below) doesn't appear in the 'Forum'? I emailed the administrator but no response.....

regards

Martyn
Comment by Patrick Broekema on March 27, 2014 at 8:25

Concerning the strings. When I obtained the guitar it had metal strings on. I'm sure that didn't do the guitar any good either ;-). I know from the recordings that Karagantcheff played on metal strings. Most likely for two reasons: loudness and easier to keep in pitch in the tropical climate. Karagantcheff's music doesn't really fit in with the classical tradition. It's his orchestral music that is most interesting. A mix of salon music, filmmusic and Indonesian elements. His guitar music is based on traditional Russian folkmelodies. 

Comment by Patrick Broekema on March 27, 2014 at 8:20

Hi Martyn, thanks for your comment. I never meant to say the instrument was from around 1800. I think the instrument (based upon its style characteristics) can be dated anywhere between 1870-1910. Given that Len Verrett (on his excellent website www.earlyromanticguitar.com) points out that the 19th century guitar tradition can be stretched as far as 1909 I think we have good arguments to say the instrument is a nineteenth century guitar. I also need to mention that this guitar has suffered a lot from the tropical climate in Indonesia. It has been restored several times (though done very poorly). This shows the guitar in its better days: http://i1.wp.com/www.karagantcheff.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Cl.... During one of the last restorations the bridge was replaced.  

Comment by Martyn Hodgson on March 26, 2014 at 16:10

Stuart,

When I said 'I wonder if this instrument is from around 1800' , I was in fact  intending to say that I was questioning the view that it was from around 1800!  As you'll see from later in my note, I suspect any date from about 1860 to 1930 may be closer to the mark......

Martyn

Comment by Stuart Walsh on March 26, 2014 at 15:21

Martyn, I don't think this instrument is from around 1800. Did you mean 1900?

Comment by Martyn Hodgson on March 26, 2014 at 11:41

Dear Patrick,

As Stewart says, an interesting project.  Is Karagantcheff's his music anything like that of the 19th century  Decker-Schenk (1826 - 1899) who seemed to have a significant influence in Russia in the later part of the century (people like Lebedeff)?

I wonder if this instrument is from around 1800 - I'm sure you'll know that before the ubiquitous Spanish model became the norm,  many Northern European makers were making instruments which looked very much like guitars of the previous century (even Hermann Hauser at first!).  From the  peghead I'd suggest an instrument from anywhere between 1860 and 1930.....

But the date of the instrument isn't really important: it's that it was played by this chap and so a valuable link to previous performance practice.  Incidentally, did it have any remnants of early strings on it when you first saw it? If so-  what were they (diameters/winding etc)?

Martyn

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