Alexander, I've heard that modern recreations/replicas (not yours, but in general) of the Stradivari 88 guitar have trouble dealing with string tension when braced per plan.----The sound boards flex, throw the action off, and strain under normal gut tension. I don't have that many Baroque Guitar plans to compare it to, and haven't ever built this guitar. However, I have seen other models (including French models) show strain under tension and am puzzled by the lack of bracing near the bridge.
I have found "Blue Spruce" to be stiff beyond imagination and likely to hold up under tension. However, I really hate the idea of going outside the realm of "plausible materials" to make it work.
If this subject has already been well addressed and discussed, I apologize for being out of the loop---I mostly build lutes.
Best,
Mike
Alexander, Great to see you! I have not had any news from you in recent weeks. I hope everything is fine. Just let me know which arrangement suits you best. Best wishes, Bernhard
Hello! just came from a vihuela lesson with Tommy Andersson; I'm working on 4 narvaez fantasias and a milan 'consonancias y redobles'. We wondered about placement of the frets and your views on tunning? Also how would you recommend stringing it? the bass courses? thinnest top course?
Thanks you for your web page and articles. The idea to make these vihuela started in a "Cursos Manuel de Falla" in Granada, in a conversation with John Griffiths who encourage me to make a Quito copy better than a Jaquemart copy (in these days the only two vihuelas well-known).
No, the central inlay is silver, like the original. I did this inlay thwelve years ago and finished the instrument last week. I started the copy follow Egberto Bermudez information and finished helped with Ariel's pictures in your web. Thank you.
Hi Alexander,
I just read your page on historical rosettes. Well done!
I am curious if you have noticed a distinctive difference in sound and volume between the three types of roses?
I have come to my own concussions with lute rose designs, but as you pointed out, the entire soundboard, rose, and barring relationship on a guitar or vehuela are completely different.
Best,
Mike
Is the second guitar are you web page (66cm) an example of an unveneered Bubinga neck? If it is, It looks nice with the dark Cocabolo body. Is it stable over time as an unveneered neck wood?
The Bubinga that I have access to is very red/orange and would have to be veneered if using a maple body, but I like this idea. I agree that solid heavy woods are better for sustain.
Best,
Mike
Thank you! That is interesting that corner blocks were not used. I guess I'm looking for the dimensions of the body. I was planning on building it to be tuned as a 6-course lute in "g". Somewhere I saw a scale length of 56cm, but I'm not sure if that is correct. As long as I get the scale length correct, and am fairly close to the correct the body dimensions I'll be happy. It's for my own personal use. I'll probably draw up my own plans as well. Did you use a mold or free-air build?
I might also build a steel-string guitar of the same basic shape in the future. I'm curious about the sound of the viola de mano comapared to vihuelas of the more "guitarish" shape. Thanks again Alexander!
Mr. Batov,
I'm interested in building a Viola da mano something like the one on your site ("dai Libri" model Viola da mano in G (SL 56cm)). I'm a novice luthier currently working on a lute from David Van Edwards "Build your own Renaissance lute" course. I'm a lefty with an interest in building my own instruments. I was wondering if you drew your own plans for this instrument or if they are available somewhere. If you drew your own, what dimensions did you use? Thank you,
I'm really impressed by your infos and the photos on your site, and the sound of your instruments as played by Rob (but it's Rob!). In fact I'm interested in eventually having a vihuela from you , but can't find your mailbox... All the best
All the colour pictures of ballet musicians come from the same source : the costumes for the Ballet de la Douairière de Billebahaut (1626). I join another picture showing servants following the guitarists from Granada, carrying their guitar cases on horseback ! (same date, of course)
Jean-Marie
Thank you Alexander for your kind words. At the time (years ago...) I recorded the Fuenllana I didn't have a vihuela yet, so I used my baroque guitar strung like a 5 course vihuela according to Fuellana's instructions ;-)...
The drawings by Rabel come from a collection of costume studies for Le Ballet de la Douairière de Billebahaut dansé par Sa Majesté en février 1626 and they are kept at Musée du Louvre, Département des Arts Graphiques.
I will post more iconographical documents soon !
Jean-Marie
At 12:34am on September 20, 2008, Yar Kislov said…
Oh, sure, I am very interested in your proposal! In fact that's what I am looking for! I would not mind at all the undecorated instrument. I wouldn't mind the absence of the decoration, even the rosette (no rosette is fine for me now), no bindings etc. All that matters for me now is that the feel is there and that it is set up well! And if you say that it will even sound as well as a good instrument, then it's great! Please let me know when you could have the possibility to make one baroque guiar like that! Thanks in advance!
Приятно все-таки по-русски пообщаться!
С мастером тем такая вышла история. Я к нему в Питер приехал и мы договорились, что он мне сделает инструмент без декораций, без розетки, с прямой задней декой (не выгнутой)... Договорились мы на 500 евро, но денег у меня тогда с собой не было и я сказал, что как только они у меня появятся, я ему позвоню.... Затем прошло полгода, у меня появились деньги и я поехал по делам в Питер. Там пришел к нему... А он говорит, что мол теперь нашел новую хорошо оплачиваемую работу и нет времени делать мне инструмент... Если бы он и взялся, то за дорогой инструмент с декорациями и т.д.
Ну, я его не виню, надо было мне самому ему звонить заранее и говорить, что все в силе и я коплю деньги....
А может оно и к лучшему.... Однако это было для меня самое подходящее по деньгам предложение....
О! Кстати на семинаре в Криглахе мне Лислеванд дал упражнятся гитару, на которой был записан его альбом Santiago de Murcia codex 4! Отличный инструмент, могу прислать фото... Правда сейчас у него основная гитара другая... А на этой играет его согрупник Thor-Harald Johnsen...
Thanks! No, I don't have the baroque guitar right now. I played it at Krieglach. And now I am looking for one! The problem is that all baroque guitars cost more than 2000 euros... :(( Here in Russia it's quite a lot of money, and I cannot yet afford that price! So, I am looking for used baroque guitar or maybe a student model which is not so expensive.... Before I find one I am planning to convert my 12-string guitar into a baroque one... I will change nut and saddle in a way so it would be sort of like on the baroque guitar (4 chords + 1 string)... And I will use metal strings, so it will be my first guitar battente :)) Yes, I know, sound wise it would be completely different instrument, but my goal is to at least practise the technique on it before I get a real instrument....
В Москве сейчас стало прохладно... +8... Эх, упустил я шанс купить барочную гитару у Михаила Федченко... А теперь он их больше не делает, говорит, что нашел себе другую хорошо оплачиваемую работу....
At 10:44pm on September 15, 2008, Andrew Hartig said…
I really enjoyed your page on historic rosettes. I added a link from my cittern site quite some time ago!
At 4:49pm on September 15, 2008, Rob MacKillop said…
Early Guitars and Vihuela
Baroque and Renaissance Guitars, Vihuela - Gittern - Pre-Torres Classical Guitar
Alexander Batov's Comments
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I have found "Blue Spruce" to be stiff beyond imagination and likely to hold up under tension. However, I really hate the idea of going outside the realm of "plausible materials" to make it work.
If this subject has already been well addressed and discussed, I apologize for being out of the loop---I mostly build lutes.
Best,
Mike
Thanks you for your web page and articles. The idea to make these vihuela started in a "Cursos Manuel de Falla" in Granada, in a conversation with John Griffiths who encourage me to make a Quito copy better than a Jaquemart copy (in these days the only two vihuelas well-known).
Best regards.
Aarón
No, the central inlay is silver, like the original. I did this inlay thwelve years ago and finished the instrument last week. I started the copy follow Egberto Bermudez information and finished helped with Ariel's pictures in your web. Thank you.
Best regards.
Aarón García
I just read your page on historical rosettes. Well done!
I am curious if you have noticed a distinctive difference in sound and volume between the three types of roses?
I have come to my own concussions with lute rose designs, but as you pointed out, the entire soundboard, rose, and barring relationship on a guitar or vehuela are completely different.
Best,
Mike
The Bubinga that I have access to is very red/orange and would have to be veneered if using a maple body, but I like this idea. I agree that solid heavy woods are better for sustain.
Best,
Mike
Thank you! That is interesting that corner blocks were not used. I guess I'm looking for the dimensions of the body. I was planning on building it to be tuned as a 6-course lute in "g". Somewhere I saw a scale length of 56cm, but I'm not sure if that is correct. As long as I get the scale length correct, and am fairly close to the correct the body dimensions I'll be happy. It's for my own personal use. I'll probably draw up my own plans as well. Did you use a mold or free-air build?
I might also build a steel-string guitar of the same basic shape in the future. I'm curious about the sound of the viola de mano comapared to vihuelas of the more "guitarish" shape. Thanks again Alexander!
Mark
I'm interested in building a Viola da mano something like the one on your site ("dai Libri" model Viola da mano in G (SL 56cm)). I'm a novice luthier currently working on a lute from David Van Edwards "Build your own Renaissance lute" course. I'm a lefty with an interest in building my own instruments. I was wondering if you drew your own plans for this instrument or if they are available somewhere. If you drew your own, what dimensions did you use? Thank you,
Mark
Jean-Marie
The drawings by Rabel come from a collection of costume studies for Le Ballet de la Douairière de Billebahaut dansé par Sa Majesté en février 1626 and they are kept at Musée du Louvre, Département des Arts Graphiques.
I will post more iconographical documents soon !
Jean-Marie
Приятно все-таки по-русски пообщаться!
С мастером тем такая вышла история. Я к нему в Питер приехал и мы договорились, что он мне сделает инструмент без декораций, без розетки, с прямой задней декой (не выгнутой)... Договорились мы на 500 евро, но денег у меня тогда с собой не было и я сказал, что как только они у меня появятся, я ему позвоню.... Затем прошло полгода, у меня появились деньги и я поехал по делам в Питер. Там пришел к нему... А он говорит, что мол теперь нашел новую хорошо оплачиваемую работу и нет времени делать мне инструмент... Если бы он и взялся, то за дорогой инструмент с декорациями и т.д.
Ну, я его не виню, надо было мне самому ему звонить заранее и говорить, что все в силе и я коплю деньги....
А может оно и к лучшему.... Однако это было для меня самое подходящее по деньгам предложение....
О! Кстати на семинаре в Криглахе мне Лислеванд дал упражнятся гитару, на которой был записан его альбом Santiago de Murcia codex 4! Отличный инструмент, могу прислать фото... Правда сейчас у него основная гитара другая... А на этой играет его согрупник Thor-Harald Johnsen...
В Москве сейчас стало прохладно... +8... Эх, упустил я шанс купить барочную гитару у Михаила Федченко... А теперь он их больше не делает, говорит, что нашел себе другую хорошо оплачиваемую работу....
Rob
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