Single or double stringed first course on baroque guitar? - Early Guitars and Vihuela2024-03-29T10:19:57Zhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/forum/topics/single-or-double-stringed?commentId=2111060%3AComment%3A20930&feed=yes&xn_auth=noUh, oh... Um, I'm starting a…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-17:2111060:Comment:209302011-03-17T16:25:41.786ZChris Despopouloshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/ChrisDespopoulos
Uh, oh... Um, I'm starting a new thread...
Uh, oh... Um, I'm starting a new thread... Surely you shouldn't be using…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-17:2111060:Comment:209292011-03-17T11:33:55.699ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
Surely you shouldn't be using the ring finger at all on the baroque guitar? Only the thumb and index and middle fingers.....
Surely you shouldn't be using the ring finger at all on the baroque guitar? Only the thumb and index and middle fingers..... Trills on chords raise an int…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-17:2111060:Comment:209252011-03-17T09:11:44.471ZChris Despopouloshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/ChrisDespopoulos
<p>Trills on chords raise an interesting thing -- I was taught a right-hand gesture that was called a trill... using the ring and index fingers. If I say a = ring finger and i = index... and then u = up and d = down... The trill is a rapid flurry of:</p>
<p>ad, id, au, iu, ad, id, au, iu, ad, id, au, iu...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I guess for some people it might be easy, but for me it's harder than it looks. When it comes to evenly striking a series of strings, it's hard to have it start up nicely…</p>
<p>Trills on chords raise an interesting thing -- I was taught a right-hand gesture that was called a trill... using the ring and index fingers. If I say a = ring finger and i = index... and then u = up and d = down... The trill is a rapid flurry of:</p>
<p>ad, id, au, iu, ad, id, au, iu, ad, id, au, iu...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I guess for some people it might be easy, but for me it's harder than it looks. When it comes to evenly striking a series of strings, it's hard to have it start up nicely -- it always takes me a second or so to get it going. So far I can only manage it for an introductory chord, or a finishing chord. But I can imagine it thrown into the middle of a passage that sits long enough on a chord. Not that I have any idea of how appropriate it would be to do so. And of course, this is a total digression from the original thread...</p> I wouldn't like to guess how…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-16:2111060:Comment:209202011-03-16T17:44:59.311ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
I wouldn't like to guess how many trills there were on the first course in general. However, even Montesardo says that you should make a trill whenever this is possible - in spite of the fact that all the music in his book is strummed - and trills on many strummed chords are practical...Better leave it at that for now.......
I wouldn't like to guess how many trills there were on the first course in general. However, even Montesardo says that you should make a trill whenever this is possible - in spite of the fact that all the music in his book is strummed - and trills on many strummed chords are practical...Better leave it at that for now....... Aren't there an order of magn…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-16:2111060:Comment:209182011-03-16T12:51:00.439ZChris Despopouloshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/ChrisDespopoulos
Aren't there an order of magnitude more trills on this course than any of the others? Or would you say that's just a function of it carrying the melody for punteado (not-strummed) music?
Aren't there an order of magnitude more trills on this course than any of the others? Or would you say that's just a function of it carrying the melody for punteado (not-strummed) music? None of the sources really sa…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-15:2111060:Comment:209022011-03-15T22:13:01.537ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
<p>None of the sources really say why it is usually single but I think this has more to do with the nature of the music - the first course is more likely to carry the melody. But it is clear that it was often single even in strummed music. For example Amat says that it is single. It may also have something to do with the fact that the very thin string needed was more likely to break. I do wonder why anyone uses nylon or even nylgut etc. I have always used plain gut. I have never…</p>
<p>None of the sources really say why it is usually single but I think this has more to do with the nature of the music - the first course is more likely to carry the melody. But it is clear that it was often single even in strummed music. For example Amat says that it is single. It may also have something to do with the fact that the very thin string needed was more likely to break. I do wonder why anyone uses nylon or even nylgut etc. I have always used plain gut. I have never found it a problem and it is less elastic and therefore less "twangy".</p> As the buzzing only occurs wh…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-15:2111060:Comment:209002011-03-15T20:20:05.734ZOlav Fyllinghttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/OlavFylling
<p>As the buzzing only occurs when the first course is double, I think Michael has pointed out the problem. With the first course double I have to pick the strings very lightly to avoid the buzzing. The buzzing also happens with both fretted and unfretted notes. It happened not when the course was single.</p>
<p>Thank you Monica for a quick answer about historical facts. Could the reason for this be to avoid problems like I have described? -- Does any of the historical sources give a reason for…</p>
<p>As the buzzing only occurs when the first course is double, I think Michael has pointed out the problem. With the first course double I have to pick the strings very lightly to avoid the buzzing. The buzzing also happens with both fretted and unfretted notes. It happened not when the course was single.</p>
<p>Thank you Monica for a quick answer about historical facts. Could the reason for this be to avoid problems like I have described? -- Does any of the historical sources give a reason for single first course on baroque guitar or lute?</p>
<p>Mark, thank you for very detailed suggestions that I shall think of. I have a friend who work as a part time luthier. He has built my classical guitar which is an instrument in the other end of the quality scale compared to the Tomann guitar – I think I will let him take look.</p> I told ya she would know!
Gla…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-15:2111060:Comment:208982011-03-15T15:20:25.845ZMark Dayhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MarkDay
<p>I told ya she would know!</p>
<p>Glad to see you <em>are</em> on here, Monica.</p>
<p>Michael has a good point about the buzzing. From your description I couldn't tell if you meant it was buzzing at the nut or not. If the overall action is too low, you can also possibly fix it at the nut. If the slots are too close together and the strings are clashing, you can also fix that at the nut by either making a new nut or cutting new slots. If the problem is at the bridge, that is a little more…</p>
<p>I told ya she would know!</p>
<p>Glad to see you <em>are</em> on here, Monica.</p>
<p>Michael has a good point about the buzzing. From your description I couldn't tell if you meant it was buzzing at the nut or not. If the overall action is too low, you can also possibly fix it at the nut. If the slots are too close together and the strings are clashing, you can also fix that at the nut by either making a new nut or cutting new slots. If the problem is at the bridge, that is a little more involved and it depends on how comfortable you are with working on your instrument. Better the action be too low at the bridge end than too high if it is a slotted bridge (looks like a Roman aqueduct...sort of). If the bridge is drilled as in a lute bridge, you can (carefully) drill new holes with a small bit set into a dowel. If the action is too high at the nut end, just make the slots deeper, but remember to ramp them down toward the peg-end of the nut. Alternately you can remove the nut and sand the bottom down a couple thou.</p>
<p>If it is an individual fret that is buzzing you can just replace it. I believe it was Dowland who recommended frets in diminishing diameter as they progress down the neck, (though it seems it should go the other way around). That is because lutes, vihuelas, and Baroque guitars have essentially a zero degree neck angle. Modern guitars with fixed metal frets of the same height are able to achieve low action by angling the neck back and using a raised fretboard for soundboard clearance.</p>
<p>Being your own repairman is part of the price of inexpensive instruments, but it's also part of the fun; at least I think it's fun, but I'm weird like that.</p> Historically it is more commo…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-15:2111060:Comment:208962011-03-15T14:01:00.312ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
Historically it is more common to have a single string on the first course of the baroque guitar. It is referred to as the "canto" and some of the sources point out that there are 9 strings arranged in 5 courses. Monica
Historically it is more common to have a single string on the first course of the baroque guitar. It is referred to as the "canto" and some of the sources point out that there are 9 strings arranged in 5 courses. Monica Does it buzz on the open stri…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-15:2111060:Comment:208912011-03-15T11:49:23.696ZMichael. N.http://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MichaelN
<p>Does it buzz on the open string, when it is fretted or both? Removing one of the strings will eliminate the possibility of 'string clash' i.e. the two strings are positioned too close to each other. That seems the most likely explanation given the information you have given. Just use a single string. </p>
<p>If the buzz is apparent only on fretted notes it suggests that the Nut is fine and the problem lies with the 'action'/frets.</p>
<p>Does it buzz on the open string, when it is fretted or both? Removing one of the strings will eliminate the possibility of 'string clash' i.e. the two strings are positioned too close to each other. That seems the most likely explanation given the information you have given. Just use a single string. </p>
<p>If the buzz is apparent only on fretted notes it suggests that the Nut is fine and the problem lies with the 'action'/frets.</p>