Renaissance Steam Bending - Early Guitars and Vihuela2024-03-29T07:46:38Zhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/forum/topics/renaissance-steam-bending?commentId=2111060%3AComment%3A20744&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOh well, Scot, that was just…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-11:2111060:Comment:208132011-03-11T22:49:59.431ZAlexander Batovhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/AlexanderBatov
<p>Oh well, Scot, that was just for a bit of fun, if you know what I mean ... If not, I might add some more to the description there when I have time and ... only if I manage to translate from a rather faint-looking script in a flowery 16th century Portuguese dialect ... Anyway, don't take it too seriously, it's not meant to be :))</p>
<p>The purfled rib is real though!<br></br> <br></br> The burn marks are indeed quite uniform on that guitar. My explanation is that he had to move really fast, so as…</p>
<p>Oh well, Scot, that was just for a bit of fun, if you know what I mean ... If not, I might add some more to the description there when I have time and ... only if I manage to translate from a rather faint-looking script in a flowery 16th century Portuguese dialect ... Anyway, don't take it too seriously, it's not meant to be :))</p>
<p>The purfled rib is real though!<br/> <br/> The burn marks are indeed quite uniform on that guitar. My explanation is that he had to move really fast, so as not to cause too much burning and, at the same time, achieve the necessary smoothness of curvature, well before the iron looses its heat.</p> Mr. Batov,
Thanks for those…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-11:2111060:Comment:208122011-03-11T21:38:05.010ZAdam Crippshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/AdamCripps
<p>Mr. Batov,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks for those pictures! Now all I need is to talk a blacksmithing friend into giving some round rod an elliptical shape for me....but in the meantime I have a steel pipe that I can experiment around with. The Vihuela style I am hoping to make doesn't have the sharp bends at the waist, but merely has a smooth dip in at the waist... like the 1555 one here:…</p>
<p>Mr. Batov,</p>
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<p>Thanks for those pictures! Now all I need is to talk a blacksmithing friend into giving some round rod an elliptical shape for me....but in the meantime I have a steel pipe that I can experiment around with. The Vihuela style I am hoping to make doesn't have the sharp bends at the waist, but merely has a smooth dip in at the waist... like the 1555 one here: <a href="http://earlyguitar.ning.com/photo/2111060:Photo:3825?context=latest">http://earlyguitar.ning.com/photo/2111060:Photo:3825?context=latest</a> and this 17th century guy: <a href="http://earlyguitar.ning.com/photo/2111060:Photo:41?context=latest">http://earlyguitar.ning.com/photo/2111060:Photo:41?context=latest</a> so the bending shouldn't be too bad...or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Of course after I got all the wonderful responses from you all we had a rain front come through, so I haven't had a chance to set everything up outside and give it a go just yet.</p>
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<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Adam</p> Hey alexander, a time travele…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-11:2111060:Comment:208112011-03-11T21:31:32.143ZScot Tremblayhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/ScotTremblay
<p>Hey alexander, a time traveler I see...good for you. So, what happened with those fluted ribs with the inlay that you posted a photo of many months back? I was looking forward to further photos of that one. It looked very interesting.</p>
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<p>It's interesting how uniformly (sort of) spaced those burn marks are. Photo #1 almost looks like chatter from a thickness planer...now that would be something to find planer marks on an original baroque guitar. That would take some…</p>
<p>Hey alexander, a time traveler I see...good for you. So, what happened with those fluted ribs with the inlay that you posted a photo of many months back? I was looking forward to further photos of that one. It looked very interesting.</p>
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<p>It's interesting how uniformly (sort of) spaced those burn marks are. Photo #1 almost looks like chatter from a thickness planer...now that would be something to find planer marks on an original baroque guitar. That would take some explaining...;) Alexander, you time traveling again?</p> The heads of the pegs aren't…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-11:2111060:Comment:208102011-03-11T21:02:28.974ZAdam Crippshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/AdamCripps
<p>The heads of the pegs aren't concave, but appeared to be VERY slightly tapered towards the top. They are thinner than the "swollen" part of the upper shaft which then tapers to the bottom, but they also appear to taper slightly towards the little decorative "bulb" on the top. Sorry, but the only pics I have available are straight on...not sure why I didn't try and get side shots as well.</p>
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<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Adam</p>
<p>The heads of the pegs aren't concave, but appeared to be VERY slightly tapered towards the top. They are thinner than the "swollen" part of the upper shaft which then tapers to the bottom, but they also appear to taper slightly towards the little decorative "bulb" on the top. Sorry, but the only pics I have available are straight on...not sure why I didn't try and get side shots as well.</p>
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<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Adam</p> Do those long pegs look a bit…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-11:2111060:Comment:208092011-03-11T20:53:11.392ZFreihttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/Frei
Do those long pegs look a bit concave near the top end?
Do those long pegs look a bit concave near the top end? Thank you, gentlemen, for the…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-11:2111060:Comment:208072011-03-11T20:10:59.116ZAlexander Batovhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/AlexanderBatov
<p>Thank you, gentlemen, for the homage to my fluted-rib bending adventures!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Scot, I hope I went far away back in time, otherwise I wouldn't have had any success ... :)<br></br> <br></br> Adam, returning to your original question, "hot iron" is indeed the answer. To my knowledge, a cast iron rod of elliptical cross section (pointed side for tight curves, dull - for less so) was used for bending sides and ribs in traditional guitar and violin making (quite possibly still is somewhere…</p>
<p>Thank you, gentlemen, for the homage to my fluted-rib bending adventures!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Scot, I hope I went far away back in time, otherwise I wouldn't have had any success ... :)<br/> <br/> Adam, returning to your original question, "hot iron" is indeed the answer. To my knowledge, a cast iron rod of elliptical cross section (pointed side for tight curves, dull - for less so) was used for bending sides and ribs in traditional guitar and violin making (quite possibly still is somewhere ...). It was heated in a wood-burning stove and, when hot enough, clamped to the bench. "Hot iron" burn marks can be seen in many old instruments. See, for example, the burn marks left on the sides of this Sanguino guitar (c. 1760s):<br/> <a href="http://www.vihuelademano.com/vg-crossroads/images/sanguino-sides1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.vihuelademano.com/vg-crossroads/images/sanguino-sides1.jpg</a><br/> <a href="http://www.vihuelademano.com/vg-crossroads/images/sanguino-sides2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.vihuelademano.com/vg-crossroads/images/sanguino-sides2.jpg</a></p> Actually a solid-body electri…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-10:2111060:Comment:207542011-03-10T02:30:23.530ZMark Dayhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MarkDay
<p>Actually a solid-body electric vihuela is in my plans for a future build. I'm thinking along the lines of Rickenbacker electric 12-string tone. Think Beatles, Byrds, 1960's kind of tone, but vihuela tuning and scale length. Probably viola da mano shape. It will probably look like a cross between a Rick 12-string and a Hofner Beatle bass.</p>
<p>Larry doesn't use those piezio pickups anymore, I believe. I think he wrote about his dissatisfaction with the tone somewhere on that site. Great…</p>
<p>Actually a solid-body electric vihuela is in my plans for a future build. I'm thinking along the lines of Rickenbacker electric 12-string tone. Think Beatles, Byrds, 1960's kind of tone, but vihuela tuning and scale length. Probably viola da mano shape. It will probably look like a cross between a Rick 12-string and a Hofner Beatle bass.</p>
<p>Larry doesn't use those piezio pickups anymore, I believe. I think he wrote about his dissatisfaction with the tone somewhere on that site. Great site, by the way. Another guy I'd like to spend an afternoon with in the shop.</p>
<p>I think an internal microphone is a better solution for all acoustic instruments, tone-wise, but that's just my opinion. I don't like the piezio sound; too plastic for me. Combine that with nylon strings and you got a real aural petro-chemical fest!</p> Oh that is awesome....I think…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-09:2111060:Comment:207532011-03-09T23:37:20.407ZAdam Crippshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/AdamCripps
<p>Oh that is awesome....I think a pickup will definitely have to go in vihuela version 2.0....</p>
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<p>-Adam C.</p>
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<p>Oh that is awesome....I think a pickup will definitely have to go in vihuela version 2.0....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Adam C.</p>
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<p> </p> Here you go Adam, about 2/3's…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-09:2111060:Comment:207522011-03-09T23:31:22.046ZScot Tremblayhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/ScotTremblay
<p>Here you go Adam, about 2/3's of the way down you'll see the mind melding of the renaissance and the 21st century.</p>
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<p><a href="http://www.cincinnatiearlymusic.com/renaissance_guitar.html">http://www.cincinnatiearlymusic.com/renaissance_guitar.html</a></p>
<p>Here you go Adam, about 2/3's of the way down you'll see the mind melding of the renaissance and the 21st century.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.cincinnatiearlymusic.com/renaissance_guitar.html">http://www.cincinnatiearlymusic.com/renaissance_guitar.html</a></p> Believe it or not, I had actu…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2011-03-09:2111060:Comment:207512011-03-09T22:40:34.092ZAdam Crippshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/AdamCripps
<p>Believe it or not, I had actually considered putting a pickup in it....but that booze filled discussion with my friend who is into heavy metal ended up turning into this crazy game plan to instead build a lute with an electric pickup, start a Franciscan metal band called "Fraticelli," and have everyone kitted out in habits.....we even decided on a first album name ("Trial by fire" based on Francis' fire incident when missionizing to the saracens)....but it never went any further than the…</p>
<p>Believe it or not, I had actually considered putting a pickup in it....but that booze filled discussion with my friend who is into heavy metal ended up turning into this crazy game plan to instead build a lute with an electric pickup, start a Franciscan metal band called "Fraticelli," and have everyone kitted out in habits.....we even decided on a first album name ("Trial by fire" based on Francis' fire incident when missionizing to the saracens)....but it never went any further than the next morning....thank goodness....</p>
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<p>I am not sure that the pegs would technically qualify as renaissance since they are 18th century context, but they are just the best we have so far. My concession to using them, as mentioned earlier, is for their usability in public archaeology programs that the kids can actually see, hear, and touch. A direction connection between a single tiny artifact and its broader context. As for the different bracing patterns, that is definitely something I noticed, but am completely ignorant of the "science" behind....should probably work on reading up on that as well before I get bogged down with coursework again. As for the strings, I keep going back and forth whether to go for nylgut or gut.....part of me wants to go ahead and get gut (is there a relatively inexpensive source for them?) but I may have to cave and get nylgut just due to costs between these various projects (my violin strings are going to be $60-100 as well from what I've been seeing). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Adam</p>