Interpreting strumming for Murcia's Saldivar Codex 1730- need some help please

[Emil Krasich]

Greetings all my first post but might as well jump into a good discussion.

Okay, I've run into a good little dilemma here. I recently purchased the facsimile to the 1714 Saldivar Codex. Everything is pretty easy to understand in Murcia's notation thankfully except for strumming/rasgeado when it comes to patterns, rhythm, meter, and when to make the chord changes. Is anyone here familiar with this facsimile? Taking for example the first piece, Jacaras, you have indication of chords to use via a lettering system that refers to a chord chart, fair enough, but then you have some vague indication of strum direction and no understanding of what pattern and rhythm they are supposed to be played in. I'd post a scanned screen shot but unfortunately the facsimile is still under copyright.

If anyone is familiar with this and could point me in the right direction to where I might find some answers (which I hopefully don't have to shell out extra $ for since I bought the Volume I: The Manuscript, Complete Facsimile Edition with Preface and Commentary. By Michael Lorimer. ), I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance for any information.

[Emil Krasich]

Yeah I guess which type you learn to read first will make the other tougher. I actually had more success turning the music upside down and reading from right to left oddly enough. I guess it comes down to spending time learning to rewire my brain or spend the time transcribing.

Do you agree with my speculation that the downstrokes are where the accents should be in the particular form (i.e. the feel)? Also is there any text that talks about how many times you repeat a strummed section or lyrical section for different forms (i.e. what is the overall structure)? Thanks in advance for any information

[Monica Hall]

I think I had another message from you about stresses which doesn't show up. Yes the stress falls on the downstrokes - and as you have probably guessed by now these don't always occur where you might expect especially in triple time pieces - because the Spanish liked to jazz things up a bit with lots of syncopation. I don't think there is a clear answer to how many times you should repeat each section. Murcia doesn't usually put repeat marks in. It seems to be largely a matter of how long you want to go on playing. Players today quite often insert the strummed variations into the plucked ones to create a contrast. I was amused by your playing the music upside down!! But in some written languages (Arabic and Hebrew) the text is written back to front not to mention the Chinese who go up and down the page so it's all a matter of becoming as versatile as possible. Monica

[Emil Krasich]

Thanks for the information, Monica. Glad you found my upside down right to left reading amusing =). I've been getting better at reading it normally. I just don't have that nice ability of being able to read and plan fingers a couple bars ahead. I suppose if I just focus on it for a little while, it may become natural.

[Rob MacKillop]

Dear Emil,

You should get hold of The Guitar and Its Music: From the Renaissance to the Classical Era by James Tyler and Paul Sparks, as it includes an overview of the various strumming practices.

Regarding my 'Strumming Tips' video - not to be taken too seriously. I was just having some fun. On the other hand, I am very sure that 'ordinary' players did not give a damn what some bewigged ponce in Paris said they should do. A mixture of patterns from the published repertoire and observation of folk-guitar cultures should give you all you need. But be careful - just because something looks and sounds like flamenco or South American styles, doesn't mean it is. There have been a few Darwinian leaps since the 17th century.

[Emil Krasich]

Thank you for the tip, Rob. I ordered the book and should get it within a couple of weeks.