Interpreting strumming for Murcia's Saldivar Codex 1730- need some help please - Early Guitars and Vihuela2024-03-28T16:16:01Zhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/forum/topics/interpreting-strumming-for?id=2111060%3ATopic%3A10006&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks for the information, M…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-28:2111060:Comment:102632009-05-28T13:05:42.263ZEmil Krasichhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/EmilKrasich147
Thanks for the information, Monica. Glad you found my upside down right to left reading amusing =). I've been getting better at reading it normally. I just don't have that nice ability of being able to read and plan fingers a couple bars ahead. I suppose if I just focus on it for a little while, it may become natural.
Thanks for the information, Monica. Glad you found my upside down right to left reading amusing =). I've been getting better at reading it normally. I just don't have that nice ability of being able to read and plan fingers a couple bars ahead. I suppose if I just focus on it for a little while, it may become natural. I think I had another message…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-27:2111060:Comment:102302009-05-27T15:41:52.230ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
I think I had another message from you about stresses which doesn't show up. Yes the stress falls on the downstrokes - and as you have probably guessed by now these don't always occur where you might expect especially in triple time pieces - because the Spanish liked to jazz things up a bit with lots of syncopation. I don't think there is a clear answer to how many times you should repeat each section. Murcia doesn't usually put repeat marks in. It seems to be largely a matter of how long you…
I think I had another message from you about stresses which doesn't show up. Yes the stress falls on the downstrokes - and as you have probably guessed by now these don't always occur where you might expect especially in triple time pieces - because the Spanish liked to jazz things up a bit with lots of syncopation. I don't think there is a clear answer to how many times you should repeat each section. Murcia doesn't usually put repeat marks in. It seems to be largely a matter of how long you want to go on playing. Players today quite often insert the strummed variations into the plucked ones to create a contrast. I was amused by your playing the music upside down!! But in some written languages (Arabic and Hebrew) the text is written back to front not to mention the Chinese who go up and down the page so it's all a matter of becoming as versatile as possible. Monica Thank you for the tip, Rob. I…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-27:2111060:Comment:102272009-05-27T13:57:18.227ZEmil Krasichhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/EmilKrasich147
Thank you for the tip, Rob. I ordered the book and should get it within a couple of weeks.
Thank you for the tip, Rob. I ordered the book and should get it within a couple of weeks. Dear Emil,
You should get ho…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-26:2111060:Comment:102102009-05-26T21:25:14.210ZRob MacKillophttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/RobMacKillop
Dear Emil,<br />
<br />
You should get hold of The Guitar and Its Music: From the Renaissance to the Classical Era by James Tyler and Paul Sparks, as it includes an overview of the various strumming practices.<br />
<br />
Regarding my 'Strumming Tips' video - not to be taken too seriously. I was just having some fun. On the other hand, I am very sure that 'ordinary' players did not give a damn what some bewigged ponce in Paris said they should do. A mixture of patterns from the published repertoire and observation of…
Dear Emil,<br />
<br />
You should get hold of The Guitar and Its Music: From the Renaissance to the Classical Era by James Tyler and Paul Sparks, as it includes an overview of the various strumming practices.<br />
<br />
Regarding my 'Strumming Tips' video - not to be taken too seriously. I was just having some fun. On the other hand, I am very sure that 'ordinary' players did not give a damn what some bewigged ponce in Paris said they should do. A mixture of patterns from the published repertoire and observation of folk-guitar cultures should give you all you need. But be careful - just because something looks and sounds like flamenco or South American styles, doesn't mean it is. There have been a few Darwinian leaps since the 17th century. Yeah I guess which type you l…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-26:2111060:Comment:102082009-05-26T20:46:26.208ZEmil Krasichhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/EmilKrasich147
Yeah I guess which type you learn to read first will make the other tougher. I actually had more success turning the music upside down and reading from right to left oddly enough. I guess it comes down to spending time learning to rewire my brain or spend the time transcribing.<br />
<br />
Do you agree with my speculation that the downstrokes are where the accents should be in the particular form (i.e. the feel)? Also is there any text that talks about how many times you repeat a strummed section or…
Yeah I guess which type you learn to read first will make the other tougher. I actually had more success turning the music upside down and reading from right to left oddly enough. I guess it comes down to spending time learning to rewire my brain or spend the time transcribing.<br />
<br />
Do you agree with my speculation that the downstrokes are where the accents should be in the particular form (i.e. the feel)? Also is there any text that talks about how many times you repeat a strummed section or lyrical section for different forms (i.e. what is the overall structure)? Thanks in advance for any information I think Murcia mostly gives t…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-26:2111060:Comment:102062009-05-26T17:09:29.206ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
I think Murcia mostly gives the basic up and down pattern but it is usually possible to work out the rest of it by comparing the strummed bits with the plucked bits. There are a few problems - when are there not!<br />
<br />
I'm afraid I can't help much with upside down tablature. I actually learnt to read Italian tablature first so reading French tab has always been more of a problem for me - matching letters to frets. I guess it is just a matter of persevering. It's very good mental exercise - like…
I think Murcia mostly gives the basic up and down pattern but it is usually possible to work out the rest of it by comparing the strummed bits with the plucked bits. There are a few problems - when are there not!<br />
<br />
I'm afraid I can't help much with upside down tablature. I actually learnt to read Italian tablature first so reading French tab has always been more of a problem for me - matching letters to frets. I guess it is just a matter of persevering. It's very good mental exercise - like doing crossword puzzles and Sudoko.<br />
<br />
Monica Thank you very much, Monica.…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-26:2111060:Comment:102042009-05-26T16:58:07.204ZEmil Krasichhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/EmilKrasich147
Thank you very much, Monica. That's the interpretation I guessed after going through some of Sanz' material, but it's great to get confirmation from an expert on it. Now to just improvise some creative rhythm. I'm guessing that all down strokes are where the accents lie in the music as well and could possibly syncopate against (compas?)? Yeah the manuscript is 1730, must have had Resumen on my brain at the time (thank you for pointing that out).<br />
<br />
Any tips for being able to read the upside down…
Thank you very much, Monica. That's the interpretation I guessed after going through some of Sanz' material, but it's great to get confirmation from an expert on it. Now to just improvise some creative rhythm. I'm guessing that all down strokes are where the accents lie in the music as well and could possibly syncopate against (compas?)? Yeah the manuscript is 1730, must have had Resumen on my brain at the time (thank you for pointing that out).<br />
<br />
Any tips for being able to read the upside down notation? I'm finding that is one of the largest obstacles since my brain just doesn't want to work that way (have to sit and figure out each one unlike being able to read bars ahead when it's right side up). I have actually started to transcribe select pieces from there into the 1st course being on the top, which at the same time I spell out the alphabeto chords and reference them.<br />
<br />
Thank you again for the reply,<br />
<br />
Emil I don't know whether you real…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-26:2111060:Comment:102012009-05-26T15:50:57.201ZMonica Hallhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/MonicaHall
I don't know whether you realized this already, but the note values placed on the stave indicate both the duration of the notes and the directon of the strum. The only thing missing are the barlines. In the Jacaras all the note values are crotchets (in English) or quarter notes. The piece begins with two pickup beats, both upstrokes. The first phrase is uu/duu/dud/ddu/d//. So you just need to put in the bar lines. A few of the pieces have more complex rhythms but most of them are not too…
I don't know whether you realized this already, but the note values placed on the stave indicate both the duration of the notes and the directon of the strum. The only thing missing are the barlines. In the Jacaras all the note values are crotchets (in English) or quarter notes. The piece begins with two pickup beats, both upstrokes. The first phrase is uu/duu/dud/ddu/d//. So you just need to put in the bar lines. A few of the pieces have more complex rhythms but most of them are not too difficult to bar.<br />
<br />
Hope that' s some help. The manuscript actually dates from the 1730s not 1714 which is the date of Murcia's printed bool "Resumen de acompanar". Very interesting! I'll try th…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-22:2111060:Comment:100812009-05-22T22:52:24.081ZHarry Jesshttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/HarryJess
Very interesting! I'll try these patterns out and see which one "clicks" with me!
Very interesting! I'll try these patterns out and see which one "clicks" with me! With the four fingered ones,…tag:earlyguitar.ning.com,2009-05-22:2111060:Comment:100762009-05-22T17:24:00.076ZEmil Krasichhttp://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/EmilKrasich147
With the four fingered ones, I end with the i upstroke. You can use the rasgueado as a quintuplet or allow that upstroke to start the next beat (so then a new finger is always starting the beat). The triplet p-m-p is definitely faster and far more effortless for me though. That one I can figuratively keep going for days and easy to keep even, but the 4 finger one I'll gas out on =). There is an older one that not many folks do these days in flamenco which is a sextuplet ami down then ami up.…
With the four fingered ones, I end with the i upstroke. You can use the rasgueado as a quintuplet or allow that upstroke to start the next beat (so then a new finger is always starting the beat). The triplet p-m-p is definitely faster and far more effortless for me though. That one I can figuratively keep going for days and easy to keep even, but the 4 finger one I'll gas out on =). There is an older one that not many folks do these days in flamenco which is a sextuplet ami down then ami up. This pattern is fairly easy to develop relaxed continuity and high speed with. It does tend to sound less clear and articulated though.